Catherine: For the next three weeks we'll be traveling across the West to explore our interests.

Arnaud: Super-exciting.

We're gonna be driving around in this huge green RV.

Joana: We're gonna be interviewing a lot of really cool people about their careers, their lives.

Franny: The biggest pressure was kind of internal.

Am I doing the right thing?

Is this still fun?

Do I still want to be doing this?

When you learn to tune into that voice and embrace that voice, you can embrace its curiosity because when you approach things with curiosity, you're more likely to just be open to things.

announcer: How do I know which path is best for me?

Is it possible to take on these challenges and obstacles?

Where do I even start?

What should I do with my life?

Sometimes the only way to find out is to go see what's possible.

Since 2001, we've been sharing the stories of people who ventured out and explored different career paths and different possibilities for their futures.

This is one of those stories.

This is Roadtrip Nation.

Arnaud: Joana's first time on a plane.

Roadtrip Nation 2025.

Joana: So we have just landed.

How do you feel?

Good?

Cathrine: Excited.

Joana: How do you feel?

Arnaud: I'm excited.

Joana: We're all excited.

Arnaud: Excited to drive an RV.

Cathrine Oh, naw.

All: Laugh Joana: Oh, I forgot about that part.

[Slate clicks] Arnaud: Action.

[Laugh] Arnaud: Hi, I'm Arnaud.

So when I think of a career, I just wanna devote myself to my art fully.

[Slate clicks] Joana: So my future right now definitely still looks cloudy.

Catherine: [Sighs] Well, I'm really just, I guess, lost.

I guess I don't like conventional jobs.

Like, I can't sit in an office for the rest of my life and just crunch numbers.

Joana: Kind of came to America when I was 8 months old and, yeah, I'm just a housekeeper.

Catherine: I really wanted to go on this trip to really start to, you know, experiment and find what I like and what I wanna do, still trying to figure that out.

Catherine: For the next three weeks we'll be traveling across the West to explore our interests.

Arnaud: Super-exciting.

We're gonna be driving around in this huge green RV, which is a little scary because my friends could attest I'm not the best driver.

I just am not the best with stopping, so we'll see.

Joana: We're gonna be interviewing a lot of really cool people about their careers, their lives, and just kind of where they find their own personal fulfillment, the world and in themselves.

Arnaud: Starting in Wyoming, we're gonna hit Idaho to Washington down to Oregon into California.

Catherine: I've never been to Wyoming.

I've never been to Seattle.

I've definitely never been to Idaho, so the majority of the trip I've never been to.

Arnaud: So where are y'all gonna sleep?

Joana: The table.

Catherine: I'm gonna sleep in-- Arnaud: Well, I was gonna call dibs on the couch, so.

Joana: You know, I was thinking about the couch.

Catherine: Your bed, her bed, TV, right?

Movie night.

Arnaud: I'm so excited to just see more of the country, to meet with people who are doing cool things and telling a story.

Catherine, say, what's up?

Catherine: What's up?

Arnaud: Oh, wait, hey!

Arnaud: This is our home, home sweet, as they say.

Joana: Home sweet home.

Arnaud: All right.

[Laugh] Arnaud: So what are y'all trying to learn on this road trip?

Catherine: I mean, kind of just how to be yourself, but also have like the confidence to do what you want.

Joana: I think for me I'm just trying to see like where to go next, like what I'm supposed to do like after this like I have no idea.

Catherine: I know, I'm like mostly like a plan-ahead person and so it's like going into like the unknown.

I'm like, ahh.

Joana: What are you hoping to get out of it?

Arnaud: I wanna learn how I can do what I want to do and get paid for it.

Joana: And be able to live off it.

All: Yeah.

Arnaud: And I wanna meet people who are doing that, you know, that's what I want.

Joana: They're like, is this thing really gonna erupt?

They're like, Nah.

Person: Here we go All: [Gasp] Joana: Whoa Cathrine: That's crazy.

Arnaud: Wow, Joana: look at that.

Cathrine: Oh, the bird left All: Oh, wow.

Arnaud: I still believe!

What?!

Joana: That is that was higher than I thought Arnaud: That's amazing.

I was doubting.

Catherine: Wow, doubter.

Joana: It tests your faith.

Arnaud: It did.

Joana: That's why it's called that.

Arnaud: I'm still faithful.

It's like hold on, believe, trust the process.

Cahtrine: Exactly.

Arnaud: Let 'em cook.

Joana: Let 'em cook.

Catherine: That's gonna be our new theme.

Let her cook, you know.

Let 'em cook.

Arnaud: We're in Wyoming right now headed to Idaho, driving by the Grand Teton Mountain.

All I really know about Idaho is their potatoes, so I'm looking forward to seeing what else there is, Idaho has to offer.

Arnaud: Hi, I'm Arnaud.

I'm from Bucks County, Pennsylvania.

I've been living in New York City for the past 5 years while studying at NYU.

Arnaud: Today I am graduating from NYU Gallatin School of Individualized Study.

I can't lie, I am proud of myself.

Arnaud: I was in a program there where you create your own major and I ended up making a major around improvisation.

I called it the improvised life thinking about how improvisation in the arts could extend beyond just the arts and into more of our social structures.

But my family was not very artistic, but at the elementary school that I went to there weren't really any Black teachers or teachers of color.

There was only one, and she was my art teacher.

Her name is Mrs.

Holt.

That's what ignited my artistic journey and then I took art classes whenever I had the opportunity to, like for electives in middle school and high school, and I was really involved in high school and it was a good time, but it was also the challenge of like dealing with like my sexuality started to come up.

I was realizing that I wasn't into women.

I had a girlfriend and it just didn't go that well, so I was depressed for a while while I was like acknowledging like that I'm not "normal" as normal was presented to me and I was very sad.

Like, I was in dark places.

There was one night where I just like wrote a letter to myself and I think it was when I wrote that letter is when I decided I was like this isn't gonna be a permanent place.

I cannot stay like hiding who I am from the people that I love.

As I've gotten older and faced other challenges I'm like I survived this.

I can survive that.

Why would I not be myself fully authentically now?

I decided I was gonna explore my interest and see what I was truly interested in doing with my time and I started to play music and paint and return to these things that I enjoyed doing from childhood so I ended up deciding to return to school to focus on music and on art and like make my interest be a part of my education.

I actually just had my first gallery show open.

It was just a reminder what can become when you're passionate about something.

Arnaud: Yeah, it's my first ever solo show.

It's kinda surreal to see it all in the same place.

Arnaud: I just wanna devote myself to my art fully, just share my art, share my thoughts, but hopefully on the road trip I'll receive advice and guidance and who knows I'll probably receive a brand-new like idea that I'll be introduced to a career or something that I never would've thought of before.

Arnaud: So we're heading over to Boise, Idaho, to meet with Mr.

Bobby Gaytan, who is an artist, muralist, and community advocate.

Bobby: Hey, Hey.

Arnaud: Hi, what's up?

Cathrine: Hello Arnaud: Nice to meet you.

I'm Arnaud.

Thank you for having us.

Bobby: My name is Bobby Gaytan.

I am from here, Idaho, and born and raised, grew up as a migrant, and so we all did farm work and growing up we were born in the farms.

Now I'm a mural artist, I'm an illustrator, and I'm a graphic designer.

Been making a living doing what I love to do for the last 24 years.

Joana: How did you transition from like the farm-working migrant life to like the art life?

Bobby: Yeah, so I have six siblings, right, so I'm the second youngest.

My oldest brother, he graduated high school and he went off to the military, and so I knew that there was something that could be done beyond the farm work.

I just knew that I wanted to create and make a career out of that.

I just didn't know how, you know, I just had no clue.

I just know that I love to draw and similar to your guys' background at the moment, well how do I make a living with this.

Always the Mexican flag.

Arnaud: That's so cool.

Joana: You know, when I think about Mexican culture I think about dreams and like all the people who come here in order to like dream and not even for themselves but like dream for their children.

Bobby: Yeah, it's always about family, right?

We owe it to them, right, to not give up, to keep moving, to keep pushing.

Bobby: Thirteen years old was when I caught the creative bug.

Then I learned about this whole world of graffiti.

As a teenager, we had this shack in the back of our house and my dad was like, "Well, instead of you going out and graffiti-ing the town, I'd prefer your friends hung out here and spray paint this shack, and here's some spray paint," you know?

And so my friends were like, "What?

We can--we actually have a canvas to go mess around with?"

But to be around other artists that had similar interests, you know, using my art as a tool to connect and I just kept doing it.

Catherine: Wow, that's incredible like doing what you like and I really liked how you said too like finding people with similar interests because I really like foreign service but then not a lot of people care or even like, you know, know about it so really I can connect with you and it's like the feeling when you finally found people you connect with.

Bobby: Yeah, you wanna surround yourself with individuals that do and care about the same thing that you do.

I would surround myself with as much creativity as I could at the time and sometimes that meant going out and looking for it.

Bobby: Push and then drag to the back, yep.

Arnaud: Is it going?

Bobby: Right there.

Arnaud: Oh, oh, okay.

Bobby: Yeah, yeah.

Bobby: Fast forward in high school, and my art teacher said, "You should put together a portfolio," and I put together this portfolio.

I turned it in and I received my first scholarship.

That was the transition from working in the fields to falling in love with art and seeing if it, you know, got me anything and it got me my first scholarship.

Bobby: So where would you like your butterfly to be?

Arnaud: A butterfly here and a butterfly there maybe.

Bobby: Let's do it.

Arnaud: Oh wow, that's so cool.

All: Whoa A practiced hand, that's what that is, yeah, that's so pretty.

Arnaud: Right now, I have a bunch of paintings and I haven't started selling any yet so I'm wondering for you what was it like when you started to profit off of your artwork and how did you maintain your integrity and like how did you keep true to the spirit of which your art was inspired?

Bobby: I think you hit on it as you asked that question, "How do you stay true?"

And I learned that that's the only way to build something that's meaningful and that has a purpose, is you have to stay true.

I use my background as a farm worker and as a graffiti artist and I blend that in my work.

I don't think there's that many farm worker graffiti artists out there.

Like, who's gonna buy my stuff?

Who's even gonna care?

Well, I learned in this journey is that you have to do it for yourself.

Put that energy more into like I enjoy doing this and I wanna do this and the only way to do this is if I do it for myself.

I love what I do and I wanna continue doing this for the rest of my life.

Arnaud: My main takeaways were to create the art that I wanna see, and Bobby, he's just always stayed true to the foundation of how he fell in love with art in the first place and to see him now like at this point in his career and life, still doing his art and still having that light in his eyes is really encouraging.

It makes it clear to me that I can do that too.

Catherine: I was like in awe because I'm not a artist, I suck at drawing, but really just see there is a way to combine something that might be unconventional into not only a job but also community building and unity with it because I'm like, man, whatever I love to do I can maybe really do outreach with that, help people with that and tell the story.

I still suck at art, but I think that's incredible.

♪♪♪ Joana: So right now we're heading to Seattle.

It's definitely like the part I've been looking forward to the most.

Oh, oh my gosh.

I'm gonna cry.

♪♪♪ Catherine: Look at that.

Joana: My obsession with Seattle kinda started with music.

It was kind of like a lingering like maybe someday I'll be there, but I don't think so because I live here in a trailer in Alabama and I clean houses and I don't have a lot of money and we're on food stamps and it'll just never happen and it's here.

I'm finally here.

Like it's finally happening.

Like, my heart rate is like going off the charts.

I'm like my dreams are coming true.

♪♪♪ So we're gonna speak with Franny Thomas at KEXP Radio here in Seattle, Washington.

Franny: I'm Franny.

Currently my job title is I'm the DJ manager at KEXP, which is a radio station.

I've been doing that for about 2 1/2 years.

I have a background in radio, so that's what we do here.

And then after that I became a therapist, and now my joke is that I'm a therapist for people on the radio, but this job was really just a combination of those things.

Support that you do as a therapist and the skills and knowledge and experience that I had as an on-air person who curated music.

Franny: Come on in.

So this is DJ Booth one and we have a DJ.

Catherine: Nice to meet you.

Franny: Troy, you wanna show 'em anything cool about the board?

Troy: Yeah, I just got done with my show a little bit ago and so after the show I'm looking at everybody's text messages and their emails in real time, and that's another thing that we love about the station is that having actual human beings in real time, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and programming on the fly.

There's no pre-planned playlists and no algorithms, so that's a big thing that KEXP is all about.

It's like community and human interaction in real time.

Joana: Did you like always know you wanted to work in radio?

Franny: Yeah, I loved music from when I was a little kid and so I love that and I love people.

I love talking to people.

I love connecting with people and radio is one of those places where you could have fun with music and that connects with people but I didn't think it was a real job.

Franny: You know, you get messages from people that are like there are All: Yeah.

certain things that are real jobs and these are the things that are worthy of doing, and so I thought it would always just be something fun.

But sometimes something fun can turn into, you know, can turn into a job, can turn into a career.

The biggest pressure was kind of internal: am I doing the right thing?

Is this still fun?

Do I still wanna be doing this?

When you learn to tune into that voice and embrace that voice, you can embrace its curiosity.

Instead of immediately meeting it with an emotion like anger or sadness or even happiness, sometimes you approach everything with curiosity because when you approach things with curiosity, you're more likely to just be open to things and so that is how I cope with it.

I move towards curiosity whenever I can.

Joana: I love Franny.

I want her job like she's so cool.

Franny: So seeing that that's possible, especially-- Joana: Here, you see this thing?

It's huge.

But being so close to somebody and being able to witness something like that, it makes me feel good about the world.

♪♪♪ Joana: So my name is Joanna from North Alabama and, yeah, I'm just a housekeeper.

I've just been housekeeping since I was 9 years old with my mom.

Joana: I actually don't mind doing it.

That's the thing.

I don't mind cleaning houses.

I don't mind cleaning bathrooms because it's usually for people who like need the help, who can't do it anymore.

And that's my favorite part about this job is that I can help people like that.

It's just--it's not my reason for living, I guess.

Joana: I am an undocumented immigrant and I never really knew that until I was like in 3rd grade and I wanted to be like a cheerleader but I couldn't because I didn't have insurance and that's just really when it hit me that like this is something that's gonna limit me like my whole life.

It's just that constant reinforcement that like you're not wanted here and that's kind of what made me give up on a lot of things in life.

Made me give up before I could even try.

As immigrants sometimes your family puts all this pressure on you to do more with your life because they had to sacrifice theirs for yours and it's this kind of trade off of like well if I can't live the life I want, you're gonna live it for me.

College has always been something that I've always wanted to give up like this idea that I'm never gonna get there, I'm never gonna do it, it's never gonna work out, and it's always been like that in the back of my head but at the same time it's an idea that just won't go away, no matter how many times I'm like, it's not gonna happen.

And every couple months I'll be like, "Well, I mean, I could start.

I could go.

I could make it work.

I just need to figure it out."

So my future right now definitely still looks cloudy and I'm a little bit afraid of it, but I'm also just kind of tired of what I've seen before.

I'm thinking journalism, you know, interviewing people, talking to people, telling their stories.

That'd be cool, but yeah, I'd rather take a risk and just keep pushing towards the future, whatever is in there.

I don't know what it looks like, but we're finding out together.

♪♪♪ So we're in Portland, Oregon, and we're here to speak with Stacey Givens who is the farmer owner and chef here at Side Yard Farm and Kitchen.

Stacey Givens: My name is Stacey Givens, and we're here on this 1 acre piece of land and we're right in the middle of the city, right in the middle of a neighborhood in Northeast Portland.

When I moved to Portland about 18 years ago, I started working at a restaurant that had a rooftop garden, and that got me hooked.

[Laugh] So as soon as that restaurant went under, I was like, you know what?

I'm gonna look for a piece of land around here.

And that's how Side Yard kind of started, bringing people together around food in two ways, right?

Like growing the food, cooking the food, and having them here to have a meal.

Like, that's my passion, that's what I love to do.

Catherine: So can you tell us about your background?

It could be education or just like skills background.

Stacey: Yeah, I mean mine is similar to yours.

Like I didn't go to college either.

I started working at like, I was like 14 honestly at my brother's restaurant in Southern California.

I just kept working restaurant, restaurant, restaurant.

I heard about this neighborhood.

It's called the Northeast Cully neighborhood, and it's like known for small houses with big plots of land.

I started knocking on people's doors one winter and just like, "Yo, could I farm your side yard?"

And finally somebody said yes, and that's how Side Yard Farm started.

Stacey: Have you ever had a radish?

Joana: No.

Stacey: I got you.

Arnaud: This is so cool looking Stacey: I'm gonna shave it.

I'll make it--and put it in a salad.

I'll make--it'll disappear in there with a yummy vinaigrette.

Joana: You said in a salad?

Stacey: Yeah.

Joana: So I have a long history with fruits and vegetables because I don't eat them.

They're not good.

Stacey: Well, you are today.

Just take one bite.

Catherine: Thank you, I appreciate that.

We're gonna have salad today.

Stacey: What else you guys want on your pizza?

So we got heirloom tomatoes.

I got-- Joana: So you mentioned that you also didn't go to college.

Did the lack of degree or the lack of college education like ever make you doubt yourself or ever make you feel like you wouldn't be able to make it as big as it has gotten or like any challenges that contributed?

Stacey: Yeah, that's a great question.

I have doubted myself, especially in the earlier days of like, oh, I didn't go to college, so like the financial side of things, like I mean, I started Side Yard with just $2000 in my pocket.

Like I just kept going, going, going, but the whole way it's-- there's always been community involved.

My village of people that are like my family, right?

Like, I was never too proud to say, "Hey, I don't know how to do this.

Can you show me?

Can you help me?"

There's somebody for everything and it's because over the years, like, it's a give and take, you know, they've needed me for things too, and it's like it's just awesome to know that, like, these people are my family and they just kind of helped build this place and you never get anywhere if you do it by yourself.

As long as you have community, dude, and like you have passion and drive, like, it's okay that you didn't go to college.

Joana: Yeah, I like that.

Stacey: You know, always be kind and keep people close.

Joana: Thank you for sitting down and talking to us.

It's been very nice.

Stacey: Thanks for coming to visit.

Let's make some pizza.

Arnaud: Yeah, I'm hungry.

[laughs] Joana: I don't--I've never had lettuce.

Stacey: Okay, dude, how are you alive?

Catherine: That's what I keep asking.

Stacey: Yeah, okay, trust me.

Joana: I'll try it.

Stacey: I might be wrong.

You wanna pick a leaf and then I'll mix this up real fast and a dip, a light dip.

I promise you this is very vinegary and tasty.

Cathrine: Vinaigrette is good.

Joana: Yeah, this one.

Stacey: You got this.

♪♪♪ Joana: That's bomb.

Stacey: Yeah I know it's bomb.

Joana: That's really good.

Stacey: Thank you Joana:I didn't even taste the lettuce with that.

Stacey: See, that's what I'm saying.

Joana: I just ate lettuce.

Stacey: It's good, look.

Arnaud: Good Job.

Stacey: So proud.

Joana: So, our talk with Stacey, I think, went really well.

She was our first leader without a college degree, and that honestly made me feel like a little more okay with the fact that I don't have a degree.

Catherine: I loved talking to her.

I've also a deep interest in urban agriculture, so really seeing her do it and do it really well, it's really inspiring.

Joana: Cheers.

All: Cheers.

Joana: Happy pizza.

Joana: She really is just a great example of how much can come from just planting your first seed.

Catherine: So we are halfway through the trip and I'm feeling great.

It's been really, really, really fun.

Like, I've been enjoying myself exploring new cities.

Arnaud: Seeing how people have been able to overlap their careers with their passion is really inspiring.

So it's very clear to me that there is a way to do it and it might just require some sacrifice and patience and like Old Faithful taught us, trust the process and so I'm gonna trust the process and put in the work.

Catherine: I love how far we have gotten.

I've learned so much good stuff.

I still don't know what I wanna do yet, and that's pretty normal, but it has definitely strengthened my resolve for some other things like there is a possibility with combining an interest to help people.

It just shows that you don't gotta be afraid to put yourself out there.

Just go try because you know what we have to lose.

Joana: I feel like my entire perspective has changed and if this is only halfway through then I don't know how it'll be when we come out but I know it'll be great and I'm just excited to keep meeting people and hearing what they have to say.

Arnaud: We're currently halfway through the road trip.

Catherine: I love how far we have gotten.

I've learned so much good stuff.

I still don't know what I want to do yet.

Blair: What you are passionate about and what you are driven to do and what your purpose is, doesn't always fit a blueprint, and you have to make that blueprint yourself.

And it's important to do that out loud so that other people can find themselves within you too.

Joana: I feel like my entire perspective has changed, and if this is only halfway through, then I don't know how it'll be when we come out.

announcer: Wondering what to do with your life?

Well, we've been there and we're here to help.

Our website has some awesome tools to help you find your path, and you can check out all our documentaries, interviews, and more.

♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪